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TML Bundles come from the archives of the Traveller Mailing List,
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Aug 18 21:00:09 PDT 1991
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #227: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
2760  12-Aug-91 jimv@ucrmath.ucr. Re: Traveller Nobility << Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.M
2761  13-Aug-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN On the Shadow (not SHADO) Fleet << Erm, Steve
2762  13-Aug-91 cmaddox@imsa.edu  GenCon Report - TML Article << Sorry, that I 
2763  13-Aug-91 rem@oz.plymouth.e 2300AD Organizations << Back from vacation...
2764  13-Aug-91 KELLOGG@ducvax.au Agility (what is it?) << Agility, as I unders
2765  13-Aug-91 dominic@quest.ath RE: Gyroscopic Attitude Control Systems << Mr
2766  14-Aug-91 chk@alias.COM     Re: 2300AD Organizations << > My question for
2767  14-Aug-91 John Lusk         Re: 2300AD Organizations << I'm currently run
2768  14-Aug-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas Dukes << Now, now Metlay... I don't really th
2769  14-Aug-91 SULAIMAN@ecs.umas Starship combat << Hi, I had asked earlier bu
2770  14-Aug-91 cmaddox@imsa.edu  Ducal Titles << [Appeared in traveller-reques
2771  14-Aug-91 Hans Rancke-Madse Re: Nobles << > jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu (jim vas
2772  14-Aug-91 "Robert S. Dean"  More ships. << More ships. What can I say? Ro
2773  15-Aug-91 Adrian Hurt       Re: Agility << From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.ed
2774  15-Aug-91 Mike.Metlay@ORGAN Put up yer Dukes! << I accept, with reservati
2775  15-Aug-91 "Robert S. Dean"  More stuff... << The Pronghorn design below w
2776  15-Aug-91 kominetz@cbmvax.c Please remove me... << Please remove me from 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2760
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 91 23:38:57 PDT
From: jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu (jim vassilakos)
Subject: Re: Traveller Nobility


Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU writes:
> Based on how the GDW/DGP Traveller universe works, Dominic, you blew it
> bigtime when you let two characters roll up random dukes and duchesses.

Now now... let's not be evil green meanies from the planet Zongo  :-)
Dominic's situation seems salvagable, and perhaps even advantageous
with a little bit of monkeying (of which I'm, notoriously in favor).

But first, a little background:

Bob Swarm's article in DGP's Digest #9 divides the nobility into
three classes: the honor, rank, and high nobility. Although well
written, I've always found this separation a tad cumbersome.
Effectively depowering the lesser nobility, it seemed to be
rationalizing a rules system which was either (a) inherently
flawed from the beginning or (b) meant to be played within an
environment of imagination often reserved only for high-fantasy.

Let's face it. It's not entirely out of the question that a
character should roll a natural 12 on Social Standing and then
add three points in service. If such a situation occurs, though
unusual, must it be the GM's responsibility to deny the "Ducal"
status in the name of party-balance?

> I find that if the players treat the
> nobles as they should, any noble over rank 12 utterly trashes game
> balance. Good luck!

Agreed, game balance is put in dire jeopardy, but there are three
generic alternatives.

(1) The Brash Young Princeling

If you can't stand the thought of granting estate, fleet, and taxes,
make the socially deviant character an offspring of the Duke, thus
allowing the title, a suitable pension, and lavish adventure
opportunities without all the mess of going overboard with
massive administrative responsibilities and unlimited resources.

(2) Oh heck... I hate Zhodani invasions!

Okay... so the character really is a Duke/Duchess, but suddenly their
Domain gets taken over by barbarian invaders with funny looking
noses. (suggested for the hack'n'slashers out there)

   Better learn to say "incognito" ten times fast....

(3) Double heck... Nothing like traitors to spoil the afternoon tea!

Well... maybe the barbarians with funny noses are busy playing golf.
If so, you can always count on a little internal strife. Are the
masses dissatisfied with Imperial rule? Maybe Coca-Farben and
SuSag want to stick the Duke's nephew into power. He was, afterall,
an economics major at the Imperial Academy of Science and Medicine.
Then again, maybe the Duke has left the administration of things to
his Ministry of Internal Affairs while he goes off to pursue some
extra-marital ones, preferably without public surveylance. Maybe the
grandadmiral of his fleets (coincidentally a neice of the Emperor) decided
to turn the Imperial Palace into a Naval Supply Depot. Hey... we can
have a little fun, can't we?


The bottom line here... and maybe it isn't the bottom line (I dunno)...
is that every new situation can bring on some pretty impressive
roleplaying opportunities. A lot will have to do with how the players
handle it. I've been a notorious nerd when put in positions of
supreme authority... but if you have the right combination of players,
nearly anything can work. So don't destroy it on GM-whim. Let things
unfold under the players' devices, and then see what opportunities
can be realized and what problems need fixing.


           _   /|
           \`o_O'
             ( )     <---  jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu
              U            ucsd!ucrmath!jimv (uucp)
          Aachk!
        Phft! Ftp!


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2761
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 08:27:54 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.edu
Subject: On the Shadow (not SHADO) Fleet

Erm, Steve, I said "Shadow," not SHADO. As much as I loved UFO, that
wasn't what I had in mind....|-> But I'm not objecting to the designs;
the Skydiver is a brilliant example of a later-commonplace idea (a
planetary defence fighter with what essentially amounts to a mobile
undersea launch pad) at a low TL. Great fun! Oh, parenthetically, the
"coolest car ever designed" that the show's star drove was a real
automobile, although very few of them were ever made available for
sale; it was a Chevrolet Astro III, last in the series of Astro "concept
cars" (and LEAST flashy of them all; the Astro I literally looked and
drove like something out of The Jetsons).

The Shadow Fleet is something that's still floating around my MT universe,
altho it's now tied (sorta) to the official MT historical line in a clear
manner. Basically, the Shadow Fleet is a widespread, mysterious "fleet" of
starships ranging in size from scouts to Tigresses, usually appearing
only one at a time under bizarre circumstances at various points in the
Imperium. The ships of the Fleet are always painted absolutely flat dead
black from end to end (illegal under Imperial shipping laws, which require 
that a certain large percentage of ships be painted brightly to aid in
visual starport approach and docking guidance), and very often they do
NOT show up on any planetary defense sensing systems (for reasons I can't
really divulge here, since people who play my game read this). They're
usually seen only briefly under mysterious circumstances, and those who
DO see them rarely talk about them-- people who do tend to vanish.

A lot of my early Traveller adventures were built around the Shadow Fleet,
and my current party may run into them eventually-- in which case you'll
read about the carnage here. |->

And speaking of ships, I don't suppose anyone out there who seems willing
to mouth off at great length about agility (Steve? Rob? Adrian?) would
be willing to achieve some sort of a consensus for TDR? Hmmmmmmm?

oboy I get ta use my .sig, 

metlay				| The Alesis Digital Recorder is vaporware.
xpander-loving old curmudgeon   | The Kurzweil K2000 is VAPORWARE.
                                | The Oberheim OB-MX is **VAPORWARE!!**
metlay@organ.music.cs.cmu.edu	| Metlay's Law STILL applies, no matter WHAT!

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2762
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1991 08:51:53 -0600
From: cmaddox@imsa.edu
Subject: GenCon Report - TML Article


Sorry, that I haven't responded sooner...  Went up to Gencon and talked to
both GDW and DGP.  When I was at the GDW booth there were no Challenge
people there so the best that they could do for me was to take my name and
address so that they could send their "Writers guidelines".  Interestingly
enough one of the names that had signed up for these guidelines I
recognized...  Charles Kallenbach (I think that's how it's spelled) how was
one of the people behind Paranoia Press in the early 1980's (Beyond,
Vangard Reaches, SORAG, etc.).  Hopefully we will see some new material
from him!

Anyway I also talked to Joe Fugate and Rob Caswell at DGP.  I asked them if
they were interested in submissions for MTJ and Joe said that Rob was the
one responsible for submissions.  So I gave them a copy of the rough draft
(on both paper and floppy) and explained a little about what we've been
discussing.  Rob was not aware of TML but Joe was.  They seemed very
interested in the article, Joe pointed out that their new base of
operations is fairly close to yours.
They made sure that they had both my home and work address and phone #. 
Only time will tell...

Otherwise Gencon was enjoyable even though there was no new MegaTrav
products, unless you want to count Challenge 51.  Solomani and Aslan should
be released in October, and the new GDW adventure should be released in
September.  There was several vendors that had older Traveller material,
and I managed to pick up some replacement copies of some of my time worn
old books.  All in all an enjoyable time.

Chuck

Chuck Maddox    	       	       	       	       	cmaddox@imsa.edu
Computer Technician     	       	       	       	(708)-801-6015    	
Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy
  	       	


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2763
From: rem@oz.plymouth.edu (Bob Mahoney)
Subject: 2300AD Organizations
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 16:44:10 EDT

Back from vacation...  and catching up on mail!  (over 400 messages- some were 
even work-related.)

After a year playing MT, our group is trying 2300.  So far, they seem to like 
it.  I am in the process of steering them toward an organization... 

My question for other 2300 refs is:  What sorts of organizations do you use?  
My group does not have a real military bent, so an Army or whatnot is out.
I'd rather not say what I am using, since Brucer (aka Zben Blaine) is a list
member, but I'd be interested to see if other refs do use organizations as 
suggested in the text, and what types.

As to organizations vs. national governments, there are some examples:  The IRA
vs. the British govt,  Greenpeace vs. the French, Amnesty International vs. a
whole lot of people, etc.  Note that these conflicts/interactions are not always
violent, but can be legal or public relations bouts.  

I don't see why any organization would seek to replace the services provided by
governments (like police or social services) while there are governments still 
willing to provide them.  Of course, quasi-governmental organizations, or 
government-wannabes, like the PLO, often provide such services, and operate as 
"governments-in-exile".
- - -- 
                                ..
- - -------------------------------m--m------------------------------------------
Bob Mahoney    Plymouth State College   Computer Services, Plymouth, NH 03264
rem@oz.plymouth.edu      Net Manager/Postmaster       bobmah@psc.plymouth.edu 

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2764
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1991 22:42 CDT
From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Agility (what is it?)

Agility, as I understand it is the ablity of a craft to maneuver out of
harms way.

I think we are in agreement that agility does not refer to the ability
to rotate a ship.  After all, doing so is not going to help the defender
very much.  Given that starship combat rounds are 20 minutes, I think that
any ship ought to be able to turn itself around in that time limit...

Therefore agility must have something to do with the craft's ability to
alter its heading.  This means maneuver drive.  If you are fighting with
another ship at a range of 2 light seconds, it will take 4 seconds for
the target information to be acted upon:
Radar bounces off target
  (2 seconds)
Firing ship picks up location of target and fires
  (2 seconds)
Laser beams from firing ship reach area of target ship
  Total time:  4 seconds.

That gives you four seconds for your ship to move to a new location.
So to the firing ship there is a certain area around the target ship
where it could potentially be.   The size of that area (and hence the
uncertainty of it's location) is going to be directly proportional to
the maneuver drive capability of the target ship.

This is why I think agility is the actual performance of the maneuver drive.
High Guard certainly seemed to work that way.  And I believe that it was
the intention of the authors of MegaTrav to use a system that worked.

So, in my book, Agility=maneuver drive (there are times when there is not
sufficient power for the maneuver drive and the maneuver drive is reduced
accordingly, this is why agility is sometimes (often) lower than the
maneuver drive number.

I think that we are basically in agreement with Adrian Hurt when we propose
that the numerator of the agility equation contains the power needed by
the maneuver drive to funtion plus "extra" power if there is any.
(maybe I'm not reading him right but I think that is what we are both saying)

He has pointed out that a good, well thought out design ought to have Zero
excess power.  I agree.  But if your power plant is too small to power
up the ol' power hungry laser turret, then you can do so by stealing power
meant for the maneuver drive.  (Double dipping)  This is the case for many
'standard' ships that didn't originally have lasers mounted on them...
	{hint:  Think of converting book 2 designs to high guard}

Agility in Aircraft.
Spacecraft must rely on their maneuver drives to increase the area of
uncertainty around them on the target scopes of their attackers...
Aircraft, in addition to their engines, have their wings.  An aircraft
can use the wings to turn at much higher rates than a grav vehicle or
spacecraft.  Thus their agilities should be higher.  (Please note that
an aircraft will only be able to do so in an atmosphere.  An Aircraft
funtioning in vacuum will only have its engines to push itself around
with)
The upper limit of the human body to withstand G's is around 9 G's.
Thus the upper limit of an aircraft's ability to turn is 9 G's.  This
is considerably higher than a grav vehicle's ability to turn.  This
is why I think a fixed wing aircraft should have an upper limit of
agility at 9, until such time as inertial compensators can be brought to
solve the problem.

	Aircraft/Spacecraft combat.  If the combat is to take place in the
air at ranges within a few hundred kilometers, then I think that I would
use the air to air rules as set out in COACC.

	In Space or at ranges were visual contact is impossible (normal
space combat ranges) I would use the space combat rules.

Air to air is much closer and should be much quicker.  That is where you
will want to know what the ROF of a Beam laser turret is.

Scott Kellogg

The one real advantage a grav vehicle has over a fixed wing ship is that
the grav vehicle can brake with the full thrust of it's engines.  An
aircraft can turn at faster rates, but it can't quite brake like that.
(unless you are flying a fly-by-wire Su-27 and feel like pulling
the Pugachev's cobra maneuver... {Pulling the nose back so that the angle
of attack is greater than 90 degrees...})

Scotto

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2765
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 91 17:54:30 CST
From: dominic@quest.athenanet.COM (Dominic Duvall)
Subject: RE: Gyroscopic Attitude Control Systems

Mr. Scott wrote:
:The Starship Operators manual says these things are used at speeds
:approaching 1 million RPM.  Ok, lets assume a gyro 1 meter in radius, and
:say 1000 kilograms.  (sound reasonable?)

Well, your analysis shows that such an assumption isn't reasonable.  Why
not assume that the gyro is smaller and less massive?  The high rate of
spin would presumably allow a small gyro, which would take up less space
and be less of a danger.  I haven't done the math, of course, but I think
that if your math shows a gyro with a 2-meter diameter is too dangerous,
then one can assume that the gyro would be smaller than 2 meters.

Dominic Duvall			 | uunet!nstar!pallas!quest!dominic
The Quest, BBS for F&SF and RPGs | dominic@quest.athenanet.com
(217) 546-7608, 3/12/2400 baud   |

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2766
From: chk@alias.COM (C. Harald Koch)
Subject: Re: 2300AD Organizations
Date: 	Wed, 14 Aug 1991 10:19:43 -0400

> My question for other 2300 refs is:  What sorts of organizations do you use?  
> My group does not have a real military bent, so an Army or whatnot is out.
> I'd rather not say what I am using, since Brucer (aka Zben Blaine) is a list
> member, but I'd be interested to see if other refs do use organizations as 
> suggested in the text, and what types.

I'm a player, not a ref, so I don't have all the details :-).

In our campaign, the entire party is the alterday crew of a startship owned
and operated by Trilon Inc. Trilon is a very large American company that
operates mostly in the French arm. They have their own planet (Kie-Yuma)
which, while nominally under American law, is really completely run by
Trilon.

You see, Trilon is taking the long view. They figure that Humanity is going
to be around for a long time, so they've started a terraforming project on
Kie Yuma (Planet looks alot like the one in Aliens :-). They are planning to
completely own/operate the resulting planet, completely severing any ties to
a national government.

Now for our adventuring: Our starship is one of Trilon's troubleshooter
platforms; if there's a Trilon problem somewhere they send us to investigate
and resolve the situation. This can be everything from labour disputes to
evil corrupt governments to capturing Kafer technology to saving New York
City from nuclear terrorists to...

This makes for a fun, useful venue for almost any adventure you can think of.

- - -- 
C. Harald Koch  VE3TLA                Alias Research, Inc., Toronto ON Canada
Internet:    chk@alias.com      chk@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu      chk@chk.mef.org

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2767
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 91 11:11:28 -0400
From: John Lusk <lusk@cs.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: 2300AD Organizations

I'm currently running a 2300 campaign (although w/school starting up
again, who knows how much time we'll have?) in which the driving
organization is the Texas Rangers (and, by extension, the Texan
gov't).  The other "organization" in the picture is the UAR -- guess
which adventure I'm running. :) I'm about to introduce a new player
who is a native of a Life Foundation colony and who is a journalist
(whether she's free-lance and if so, to what degree, has yet to be
decided).  I'd sort of like to get them involved w/the Trilon Corp. at
some point, since I have a couple of far-frontier adventures in mind.
Bob, if you get away from military-type adventuring, I'd be interested
in knowing what you do; 2300AD seems to almost force you into some
form of cowboys-and-indians type adventure.  (BTW, if you want to
discuss this off the list, my email address is lusk@cs.unc.edu.)

I discussed the foundations-vs-nat'l-gov't question on CompuServe, and
reached some conclusions: with the exception of extra-legal
organizations (IRA, PLO, Provolution), organizations don't even
pretend to compete w/nat'l gov'ts.  Organization members still have
national identities, and pay taxes to their respective national
governments (less any applicable exemptions).  They also have strong
"organizational" identities.  For example, a troubleshooter (whatever
THAT is) working for NARL might have grown up in Germany or on a
German colony.  He would think of himself as German, but he has a
greater affinity for ideals that transcend national boundaries.  He
pays German taxes, but he's really subject to the laws of whatever
locality he's in.

I guess it's all fairly obvious, but some of the statements in the
Adventurer's and Director's Guides really threw me for a loop.  The
organization's goals become the player's goals (unless they're TRULY
independent), and for just about every goal, there's an organization.

Now I'll go out on a limb and firmly state my own opinions: It seems
to me that, even today, national governments are more or less the
same.  They provide the same basic services to their citizens, impose
the same more-or-less commonsense laws, and hit 'em w/taxes.  The more
services, the more taxes.  Differences show up mostly as cultural
differences, which should be role-played.  I don't really see
organizations like the Pesh Murga or the PLO going into space,
although groups using the same tactics may arise on colonies
struggling for independence.  Really outlandish situations, like the
civil war in Ethiopia with all its attendant complexities, or the
suppression of the Indian population of Guatemala, or the requirement
that the government of Lebanon be made of differing religious groups
(Christian PM, Islamic President, etc) won't be directly transplanted
to the colonies, but might be duplicated, somehow.  According to the
official history, only a few colonies have rebelled, so it really
sounds like business as usual out there.

Good grief, if I'm not careful, I'll just write incoherently for
hours!

John.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2768
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1991 12:27 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Dukes

Now, now Metlay... I don't really think being a duke/duchess is all
that bad!! There are supposed to be about 1 for every 2 subsectors
on average I believe. Maybe you are thinking of archdukes. However
these are an even rarer species. There can be many dukes in a
sector. One of them could become top dog  and be a sector duke. All
these people would have the same social standing(F).

I quote the Imperial Encyclopedia:

     Duke: The fifth level of noble rank is duke, who is associated
     with a subsector or sector. 
     .
     .
     An individual accorded a duchy may receive a fief of land on
     single world, generally not more than 100,000 square km.


That definition does not entirely go together with metlay's. Dukes
DONOT control planets. The ArchDuke of Ilelish does not run the
government of Dlan. The government being a religious dictatorship.
The archduke is not the right religion even though he is a native.
I think we have to separate Imperial administrative control from
local one. The Duke of Regina is also Count of Yori yet he
INFLUENCES not controls both governments. He heads the Imperial
civil service for the subsector. In our terms think of him as a US
senator. He influences and controls much of what goes on in his
state but the actual government is left to locals. 

In game terms, I tend to side more with metlay. If you give a
player all the benefits of nobility you make the game centered
around that person. If you don't then it can be construed to be a
waste of a skill roll. 

However there is hope. Aside from being incognito, the noble
character can be from worlds just overrun by Vargrs. Tons of these
in Corridor and Lishun. He could be on the run from Lucan! All his
estates confiscated by the Imperium. They could also be "local"
dukes. Basically from worlds with feudal governments. Lastly they
can be Dukes by default. The character was originally 4 offspring
of 3rd cousin to the actual Duke. But since the entire family was
killed/murdered/assassinated the character is now a duke by
default. The other PCs could have been hired originally to get the
poor person from being killed. Maybe a few could be his retainers
too. Also depending on the characters age etc you could say he
abdicated (voluntarily or otherwise) his powers to someone else but
not the title. A particularly cruel idea is that the character
could be a Duke on the Solomani Rim on a long vacation in the
Marches on a unlimited travel/credit voucher from Sharurshiid but
with the retrenchment of the Vilani and the war his voucher is
worth nothing and the character has no money and no means of
getting back to his OCCUPIED home.

Again a high noble character does not have to be a hindrance to
play. Instead the character can be a source of many ideas and
adventures. The character could be a campaign basis with individual
adventures not necessarily based on him

Ameer Sulaiman.  ^Z

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2769
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1991 12:34 -0500
From: SULAIMAN@ecs.umass.edu
Subject: Starship combat

Hi,
I had asked earlier but not received any response on this. So I will
repeat the question:

Has anyone out there really run starship combat using MT rules? 
I am interested specifically in whether other people were involved
in running the battle or was it done solitaire. Also what was the
sizes of craft involved. 

I have an added question:

Anyone running a campaign using MT rules involving large craft. >10kt
displacement. I know someone posted a battle earlier involving a Vargr
strike but I am not sure whether the rules were High Guard or MT or
homebrew...

Speculations questions welcome.

Ameer

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2770
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1991 08:59:14 -0600
From: cmaddox@imsa.edu
Subject: Ducal Titles

[Appeared in traveller-request's mailbox by accident.  I edited the
subject line and forwarded it to the traveller mailbox -- James]

jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu (jim vassilakos) writes:

>
>Let's face it. It's not entirely out of the question that a
>character should roll a natural 12 on Social Standing and then
>add three points in service. If such a situation occurs, though
>unusual, must it be the GM's responsibility to deny the "Ducal"
>status in the name of party-balance?
>
>

An historical equivelent of this is the late British Lord Louis Montbatten.
 Montbatten was born fairly high in British nobility and spent his life in
service to his country.  In Traveller terms he probably started with a high
Social Standing (9, A or B anyway) and increased it during his life, but
any increase was manifested only in terms of reputation and recognition
rather than power.  In the end this was his downfall since it made him a
highly visable target (in his case of the IRA). 

Chuck

Chuck Maddox    	       	       	       	       	cmaddox@imsa.edu
Computer Technician     	       	       	       	(708)-801-6015    	
Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy
  	       	


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2771
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@freja.diku.dk>
Subject: Re: Nobles
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 91 19:31:12 MET DST

> jimv@ucrmath.ucr.edu (jim vassilakos) writes:
>
> Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU writes:
> > Based on how the GDW/DGP Traveller universe works, Dominic, you blew it
> > bigtime when you let two characters roll up random dukes and duchesses.
>
I agree. A 'Travelling' imperial noble is really quite ridiculous (as
IMO is an ex-High Admiral or other high imperial official).

> Let's face it. It's not entirely out of the question that a
> character should roll a natural 12 on Social Standing and then
> add three points in service.

No indeed. It is actually quite likely that one will show up if
you play long enough.

>                               If such a situation occurs, though
> unusual, must it be the GM's responsibility to deny the "Ducal"
> status in the name of party-balance?

Yes! Yes! Yes! It is ALWAYS the responsibility of the GM to vet
the rules and veto anything that will upset the game (remind me
sometimes to tell you about the time I played classic Traveller
with a GM who played _by_the_book_!)

>
> > I find that if the players treat the
> > nobles as they should, any noble over rank 12 utterly trashes game
> > balance. Good luck!
>
> Agreed, game balance is put in dire jeopardy, but there are three
> generic alternatives.
>
The solution I've adopted is to ignore the MegaTraveller version of
nobles and stick to the classic Traveller interpretation. Vis: That
the ranks rolled up on the character generation tables are _local_
_planetary_ranks. I furthermore interpret noble rank in the conti-
nental manner (in which all the sons of a noble inherits the rank)
instead of the english. This makes nobles much easier to handle ;-)

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2772
Date:     Wed, 14 Aug 91 15:47:11 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  More ships.

More ships.  What can I say?

Rob

IGN Aganar Class "Light Cruiser" TL13

     The first Aganar class light cruiser was built by the Imperial Glisten 
Navy in 997.  The last of the sixty vessels was commissioned in 1029.  The 
ships are named for famous battles of history.  At the outbreak of the Fifth 
Frontier War, the Aganars were the oldest class of vessels still in service 
with the IGN, and were committed to action immediately as one of the few 
meson gun carrier classes in use.  Merely the technological equals of their 
opponents in the Collace Independence Fleet, and heavily outnumbered at every 
encounter due to the vagaries of their pre-war deployment, the Aganar squad-
rons were virtually annihilated in the opening weeks of the war.  Between 
combat losses and the destruction of a number of damaged ships under repair 
during the brief Collace occupation of Glisten, only a single ship out of the 
sixty, the IGNS Alesia, survived through the end of the war.  The Alesia was 
reclassified as a fleet escort during the fleet reorganization of 1112, and 
was still in service as a training vessel as of 1118.  
     Short duration was a major problem of the class--immediate refueling 
upon entering a system was a necessity, but was considered an acceptable 
trade-off in return for the meson gun mounted on such a comparitively small 
hull.

  CraftID: Aganar Class Light Cruiser, TL13, MCr9460
     Hull: 7200/18000, Disp=8000, Config=1SL, Armor=52F,
           Unloaded=190700t, Loaded=194131t
    Power: 1840/3680, Fusion=248400MW, Dur=13.6 days at 21% power
     Loco: 288/576, Jump=3, 576/1152, Maneuver=3 (Thrusters=416kt), 
           TrueAcc=2.14G, MaxSpeed=1000kph, Cruise=750kph, Agility=2
     Comm: Radio=System*3, LaserComm=System*3, MaserComm=System*3
  Sensors: EMS Active(Far Orbit)*3, EMS Jammer(Far Orbit)*3, EMS
           Passive(Interstellar)*3, High Pen Densitometer(100m)*3, Neutrino
           Sensor(100kw)*3, ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine,
           PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Routine,
           PassEnPin=Difficult
      Off: Hardpoints=80

            MesonGun=E0x   Missile=x90   BeamLaser=xx9
           Batteries 1              5                1
           Bearing   1              5                1

      Def: DefDm+9, NuclearDamper-3, MesonScreen-3

              Sandcasters=xx9
           Batteries        2
           Bearing          2

  Control: Computer Mod7fib*3, LargeHoloDisplay*2, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*70,
           HoloLink*1200
    Accom: Crew=122 (12 command, 13 bridge, 34 engineer, 54 gunnery, 6
           Maintenance, 2 medical), Staterooms=61, Env=basic env, basic ls,
           extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=31170kl, Cargo=0, Missile Magazine=2500kl (100 battery
           rounds), Fuel Scoops, Fuel Purifier (18hrs), ObjSize=Large, 
           EmLevel=Strong
    Notes: Fuel Consumption at full power 138kl/hr, at 21% power (full
           maneuver and life support) 29.3kl/hr, 21600kl per Jump-3


Collace Retribution Class Light Cruiser TL13

     The Retribution class light cruiser is one of four standard designs 
produced for the Collace Independence Fleet prior to the Fifth Frontier War.  
Like the others, every effort was made to make these vessels easy to assem-
ble, and over a hundred were in service by the outbreak of the war.  A small 
group of these cruisers, along with one Freedom class battlecruiser escaped 
from the final battle at Collace where they had been stationed throughout the 
war, and were eventually sold to an Aslan clan navy in the Trojan Reach sec-
tor, and participated in the attack on Glisten in 1119, twelve years after 
their sisters.

  CraftID: Retribution Class Light Cruiser, TL13, MCr16220
     Hull: 27000/67500, Disp=30000, Config=4SL, Armor=40F,
           Unloaded=382000t, Loaded=400000t
    Power: 3047/6094, Fusion=411300MW, Dur=21 days
     Loco: 810/1620, Jump=2, 1350/2700, Maneuver=2 (Thrusters=975kt), 
           TrueAcc=2.4G, MaxSpeed=1000kph, Cruise=750kph, Agility=2
     Comm: Radio=System*3, LaserComm=System*3, MaserComm=System*3
  Sensors: EMS Active(Far Orbit)*3, EMS Jammer(Far Orbit)*3, EMS
           Passive(Interstellar)*3, High Pen Densitometer(100m)*3, Neutrino
           Sensor(100kw)*3, ActObjScan=Routine, ActObjPin=Routine,
           PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Diff, PassEnScan=Routine,
           PassEnPin=Difficult
      Off: Hardpoints=300

            ParticleAccelerator=R00   Missile=x90
           Batteries            1              24     
           Bearing              1              22     

      Def: DefDm+8, NuclearDamper-3, MesonScreen-3

              Sandcasters=xx9
           Batteries        2
           Bearing          2

  Control: Computer Mod7fib*3, LargeHoloDisplay*4, HeadsUpHoloDisplay*130,
           HoloLink*90
    Accom: Crew=155 (13 command, 15 bridge, 65 engineer, 58 gunnery, 2
           maintenance, 2 medical), Staterooms=78, Env=basic env, basic ls,
           extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
    Other: Fuel=177477kl, Cargo=0, Missile Magazine=12000kl (100 battery
           rounds), Fuel Scoops, Fuel Purifier (12hrs), ObjSize=Large, 
           EmLevel=Strong
    Notes: Fuel Consumption at full power 228.5kl/hr, at 33% power (full
           maneuver and life support) 76.2kl/hr, 60750kl per Jump-2

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2773
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Agility
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 10:08:48 BST

From: KELLOGG@ducvax.auburn.edu
> I think that we are basically in agreement with Adrian Hurt when we propose
> that the numerator of the agility equation contains the power needed by
> the maneuver drive to funtion plus "extra" power if there is any.
> (maybe I'm not reading him right but I think that is what we are both saying)

And this "extra power" is defined as "power plant output minus power used by
all systems, including manoeuvre drive".  Let's try converting it to algebra:

	  Pm + Pe
Agility = ------- * 10
	     M

where Pm is power used by manouevre drive, Pe is "excess power", M is mass of
ship.

Your definition of excess power is:

Pe = Pp - Pm - Ps - Pw - Penv - Pc

where Pp is output of power plant, Ps is power used by various low-power
systems (comms, sensors etc.), Pw is power used by weapons, Penv is power
used by environmental controls, and Pc is power used by computers.  So,

	  Pm + Pp - Pm - Ps - Pw - Penv - Pc
Agility = ---------------------------------- * 10
	     		M

Note that Pm can now be eliminated:

	  Pp - Ps - Pw - Penv - Pc
Agility = ------------------------ * 10
	     	     M

And that top line is what I call "power available to the manoeuvre drive".
Pm, the power rating of the manoeuvre drive, doesn't come into the equation,
except for being an upper limit on the numerator - the manoeuvre drive can't
use more power than its maximum rating, and that's how you prevent agility
from exceeding manoeuvre rating.

dominic@quest.athenanet.COM (Dominic Duvall) writes:
> Mr. Scott wrote:
> :The Starship Operators manual says these things are used at speeds
> :approaching 1 million RPM.  Ok, lets assume a gyro 1 meter in radius, and
> :say 1000 kilograms.  (sound reasonable?)
> 
> Well, your analysis shows that such an assumption isn't reasonable.  Why
> not assume that the gyro is smaller and less massive?

In which case it's spinning faster, and still dangerous.  I have a vague
memory of a S.F. short story in which a ship used gyros for turning, and
was therefore very slow on the turn.  There was a comment to the effect that
there were two ways of turning the ship; thrusters, which were difficult to
balance and to do precise manoeuvres, and gyros, which gave the ship all the
agility of a bogged hippopotamus.  (It's the "bogged hippopotamus" bit I
remember most accurately.  :-)

- - -- 
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2774
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 08:49:36 EDT
From: Mike.Metlay@ORGAN.MUSIC.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Put up yer Dukes!

I accept, with reservations, the corrections posted by those who actually
have their books nearby as opposed to relying on memory (can y'all say,
"Back in Atomic CIty again"? Knew you could.) However, I stand by my
initial statement that I consider noble PCs to be a (pardon the pun)
royal pain in the butt. The various workarounds suggested by some folx
are workable only in a very broad sense; from a practical standpoint,
the higher a character's Soc is the less useful a PC he'll make, because
he'll be out of sync with the way "normal" people get things done. Lord
Mountbatten is a poor example, BECAUSE his Soc was B or less-- he wasn't
ennobled to the point where he was really living a life that was that much
different from anyone else's. You want a better example? Take the first
son of, oh, say, the Emir of Bahrain, and dump him in the middle of Kenya
with no money, no ID, and a steady job to keep himself fed. There's a common
language (English), but until and unless he wires Daddy for help he's gonna
be a fish out of water. The higher one's rank, the less actual work one
does-- that's how oligarchies WORK. Sure a duke has duties, but his life 
is going to less like that of a commoner than just about anything you can
think of. Sure there'll be differences from world to world, but the essential
character of the oligarch is there-- so you have the choice of either making
the noble the center of the campaign, or having him do a whole LOT of
roleplaying trying to learn to act like a normal human being without getting
killed, in which case your campaign will look a lot like that Eddie Murphy
flicker about the African prince who lives in NYC for a while, whatever it
was called. Anyway, *I* wouldn't do it, unless the "poor little rich kid"
is exactly what one of my players wanted.

metlay

Beware....the Horde is coming....!


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2775
Date:     Thu, 15 Aug 91 10:13:08 EDT
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  More stuff...

The Pronghorn design below was inspired by Dow Rieder's TL13 Bighorn kinetic
energy drone missile which appeared here some time ago.

Rob Dean

I've been trampled by the Horde...


Balladeer Light Air Raft TL11

     The Balladeer is a fast light air raft intended for use by individuals.  
An extended seating version is available with the inline roomy seats replaced 
by a two by two cramped seat group, but that variation is not popular. A 
small array of sensors gives some limited all weather capability, but reduced 
speed would be prudent under such circumstances.
  
  CraftID: Balladeer Light Air Raft, TL11, Cr29300
     Hull: 1/2, Disp=0.75, Conf=3AF, Armor=2E, Loaded=2.0t,
           Unloaded=1.5t
    Power: 1/2, 5*FuelCell=0.45MW, Dur=3 days
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=4t, TopSpeed=1200kph, Cruise=900kph,
           NOE=40kph, MaxAccel=1.0G
     Comm: Radio=Regional(500km)
  Sensors: Passive IR Sensor, Light Amplification, Radar=Dist(5km),
           ActObjScan=Form, ActObjPin=Form
      Off: Hardpoints=1, No weapons
      Def: -
  Control: Electronic*7
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*2, Env=basic env, basic ls
    Other: Fuel=0.144kl, Cargo=0.5kl, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate 
    Notes: The fuel tank can be readily adapted for liquid oxygen for use
           in unbreathable atmospheres, with a resulting endurance of
           eight hours.

Balladeer Light Air Raft Emergency Conversion TL11

     When the planet Nasemin (Spinward Marches/Aramis 3003) was invaded in 
1118 by Vargr corsairs intent on setting up a base rather than plundering, the 
planetary militia was quickly overwhelmed.  In a desperate attempt to provide 
air support for a guerilla counterattack on the starport, Colonel Nolan Arme-
nax scraped together a squadron of fourteen Balladeers from local air raft 
dealers and armed them with his limited supply of Pronghorn drone missiles 
salvaged from a destroyed defense installation.  Defending Vargr pilots were 
initially surprised by the use of these civilian craft still in their colorful 
showroom paint schemes, and two combat pinnaces were destroyed before the 
Vargr were able to respond.  All fourteen Balladeers were lost, but the cor-
sairs abandoned their downside base rather than face the anticipated level of 
guerilla activity.
  
  CraftID: Balladeer Conversion, TL11, No price available
     Hull: 1/2, Disp=0.75, Conf=3AF, Armor=2E, Loaded=1.86t,
           Unloaded=1.56t
    Power: 1/2, 5*FuelCell=0.45MW, Dur=3 days
     Loco: 1/2, StdGrav=4t, TopSpeed=1269kph, Cruise=952kph,
           NOE=40kph, MaxAccel=1.15G, Agility=1
     Comm: Radio=Regional(500km)
  Sensors: Passive IR Sensor, Light Amplification, Radar=Dist(5km),
           ActObjScan=Form, ActObjPin=Form
      Off: 6 launch rails, 6 ship missiles in two volleys of 3.

           Missiles=x02
           Batteries  2
           Bearing    2

      Def: DefDM=+3
  Control: Electronic*8
    Accom: Seats=Roomy*1, Env=basic env, basic ls
    Other: Fuel=0.144kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate 
    Notes: One seat was ripped out and an additional control unit to fire the 
           missiles was added.  Six launch rails were attached to the stub 
           wings, and the speed was reduced as a result of the drag.  The 
           cargo compartment was left empty to compensate for the weight of 
           the missiles.  The missiles had no oxygen tanks and could not
           reach orbit, but were adequate for short range atmospheric combat.

Pronghorn Drone Missile TL11

     The Pronghorn drone missile is intended for fairly short range atmos-
pheric combat, although it can be adapted for vacuum use with an oxygen tank.  
It is not particularly smart, and would ordinarily be used with a launch 
vehicle with a more capable sensor system.  Once a target is pointed out to 
the missile, it can use its own sensors to maintain a track on it, even 
through violent maneuvering.  With a usable atmospheric acceleration of 6 
G's, specialized atmospheric craft may be able to outmaneuver a Pronghorn 
temporarily, but very few could continue to do so for the full 160 hour 
endurance of the missile.  If a target does manage to distract the missile, 
it can be programmed to self destruct or to return to base to be used again.
     TL12 and TL13 versions of this missile are available, at discounted 
costs of Cr31800 and Cr32100 respectively.  The TL12 version has a slightly 
improved brain with Intelligence of 2 and a skill of GravVehicle-3.  The TL13 
version has intelligence 3, GravVehicle-4, and a warhead with a penetration 
of 67 rather than 65.

  RobotID: Pronghorn Drone Missile, TL11, Cr39330 (31500 mass)
     Hull: 6/13, Disp=80 Liters, Conf=3AF, Armor=2E, Loaded=57.3kg
    Power: 2/4, FuelCell=10KW, Dur=160hrs/17hrs(closed)
     Loco: 2/4, LP-HGrav=0.4t, TopSpeed=4200kph, Cruise=3150kph, MaxAccel=7G
     Comm: none
  Sensors: Passive EMS(VDist), PassEnScan=Form
  Devices: none
      Off: HEAP Warhead, Penetration:65, Damage:28
      Def: -
    Brain: CPU=20 Linear, Storage=12 Standard
  Program: Low Data, Basic Command, GravVehicle-2
    Other: Fuel=16L, Profile=4F11

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 2776
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 91 10:31:27 EDT
From: kominetz@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.COM (John Kominetz - Product Assurance)
Subject: Please remove me...


	Please remove me from the traveller mailing list.  Thank you.

	kominetz

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

